BIG STOPPER
I’ve been in contact today with Robert White, a fantastic camera shop here in the UK about buying the new Lee Filter Big Stopper.
If you’ve not heard about the Big Stopper yet, it’s a 10 stop full ND filter which basically greatly reduces the amount of light coming into your lens, so you can go crazy doing long exposures.
I’m a big fan of the Lee filter ND Grads and full ND’s. They are very neutral. Over the past two years of doing my workshops, I’ve seen many people come on trips and try to cut corners by buying Cokin filters. Only to be disappointed by the poor filter holder and the colour shifts that are apparent in the filters.
So as much as Lee filters are expensive, they’re very worth it in my opinion. But what I didn’t know was just why the filters are so expensive, and when you hear how they are made, you’ll have a better appreciation for the costs that they sell them at.
As usual, I got into a discussion about the terrible waiting times for any of the Lee Resin and Glass filters and the chap at Robert White started to tell me about the filter making process. He said that it takes roughly 1 hour to make a resin or glass filter. They’re hand made and dipped into boiling dye. Depending on how hard or soft the graduation should be, they are dipped in at different rates. Then each filter is checked against a spectrometer for colour shifts and the filter is re-applied to another vat of dye to correct the colour shift. At each stage, they have to monitor the light fall off for each filter. It really is a long process.
When I considered this, it made me realise that the filters are pretty cheap considering how much time and effort goes into making them.
I’ve got a big stopper on back order (4 to 6 weeks). I love using full ND filters in the early morning light, but a 10 stop filter is more a requirement for mid day shooting (for me anyway – I shoot film, so I can’t really go more than a few minutes on Velvia before something horrible happens).
Hi Bruce
I was lucky enough to get a Big Stopper on it’s release and It’s fair to say it’s been firmly attached to my filter holder ever since.
It is a superb bit of kit and I have been very pleased with the results, it has a really nice cool effect, which can be warmed up with Digital. I’ve a number of shots taken with it on my blog if you want to take a look http://www.blog.davidbakerphotography.co.uk
The wait will be worth it, I look forward to seeing your results and thought on it.
Regards
David
Comment by DLB — 28 April, 2010 @ 2:48 pm
I have a Formatt 10 stop filter, but don’t recommend it. It’s so glossy that it reflects your front element back onto the sensor, resulting in nasty artifacts.
Putting a polariser between the lens and the filter helps cut the reflection, but is a sub-optimal solution. I seems to introduce colour casts most of the time too. I expect the Lee solution would be much higher quality.
Comment by vorlich — 28 April, 2010 @ 3:01 pm
good to hear you are making that purchase! i am thinking of ordering one too as its tedious using the screw in type bec becuse everytime i want to recompose i have to take off the grad holder and unscrew it, having something that slots in and out will make using a 10 stop nd so much easier and might actually encourage me to use it even more! still curious as to how it cuts out light from around the sides, i heard its a foam gasket but i just cant believe thats sufficient!
d
Comment by DavidLangan — 28 April, 2010 @ 4:21 pm
Hi Bruce, it seems Lee and Cokin are having production problems due to the dye they use having been banned and finding a replacement is proving difficult.
One thing, when people knock Cokin, don’t put all Cokin filters in the same boat. I use the X-Pro range and they are as good as the Lee filters. The cheaper Cokin range does have a number of issues, but the X-Pros are very good filters.
But the Lee Big Stopper is a very useful filter, especially as DavidLangan says, removing the grads to add a screw-in 10 Stop ND (like my B&W 10 Stop) is a real pain. Just being able to slide in the Big Stopper is much easier (could even tempt me to switch to Lee).
Phil
Comment by PhilC — 28 April, 2010 @ 4:33 pm
Dave
I have the B&W 10 Stop also, If you have live view and decent light you should still be able to compose as the live view should still work. The other thing I used to do was whack up the ISO so that the shutter speed is shorter take a shot check it on the LCD and then recompose or adjust grads as required.
Cheers,
David
Comment by DLB — 28 April, 2010 @ 4:54 pm
The Big Stopper has a thin foam border that blocks out the light, so far I’ve had no issues.
Comment by DLB — 28 April, 2010 @ 4:56 pm
Hi Phil,
I can only go on what I’ve seen so far and the Cokins Ive seen have not been up to standard. I have asked a few people on my trips if they are using the ‘Pro’ branded ones to which I’ve been told ‘yes’. And yet, they are not neutral. Perhaps I’m being informed incorrectly, in which case I withdraw my statement.
But I do feel you get what you pay for. Have you seen any colour shift? It’s so easy to listen to someone’s opinion on the web yet they haven’t really tried these things in anger.
I’m aware for instance, that Lee’s will colour shift if you compound many filters on at the same time.
I’m curious as to where you got that information about the dye…. this doesn’t match what I’ve heard. Lee has constantly had production issues for years. I’ve always had to wait weeks for filters. Last year one of their machine broke down and then it broke down again. I hear this from many places inc Robert White today. But I’ve not heard that the Dye is the problem or has been banned. If it were banned – how could they be making more?
Comment by Bruce Percy — 28 April, 2010 @ 5:55 pm
Hi Bruce
You can tell if they are using the “pro” version of the Cokin as they are very large at 170mm x 130mm; make the Lee’s look small!
I have had no colour shift, even when using the Polariser with the Grads, or two grads stacked. From what I understand, these Cokin filters use the same resin and dyes as Lee (again, don’t know for sure, but what I have been told)
Regarding the problems, I heard this from a chap that is close to Cokin and to quote him “… that is both Lee and Cokin since the chemical they used to stain the grads with was banned. I think they are working together on a solution, but the alternative to date has given a lot of production problems, obviously at both.”
Maybe right or maybe it is something else. But I know of people with Cokin’s on back-order for months as well.
Phil
Comment by PhilC — 28 April, 2010 @ 7:05 pm
Hi Phil,
I see – well they’ve not been using the PRO versions – so I retract my statement about the Cokins :-)
You’ve piqued my interest in the PRO Cokin series now – are they generally a lot cheaper than the Lee’s? Or much the same? How do you find the holders and adapter rings on them compared to the Lee’s?
Interesting that the Cokins are on a back order too. I know the Lee’s have been this way for years, so I put it down to them constantly having production issues – or by what I’ve been told by Robert White – a very manual, time consuming way of producing them.
Good imput. I’d be interested to see the Cokin Pro series if you’re taking them to Eigg with you?
Comment by Bruce Percy — 28 April, 2010 @ 8:55 pm
Hi Bruce
Price wise not sure; but the Cokins are not cheap, maybe even more expensive than the Lees (would need to google some prices)
Yes will be taking them to Eigg, unless I switch to Lee :-) The Lee Big Stopper is a tempting and also Lee are bringing a filter solution out for my Nikon 14-24 lens.
Phil
Comment by PhilC — 28 April, 2010 @ 9:14 pm
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the heads-up on the Cokin’s. It’s been an eye-opener. I think one of the things about doing Workshops is that I get to learn stuff too. Workshops should be creative, open environments with a good team spirit. Last week on Eigg I had that and it’s great for me to be able to pass stuff out but also be shown things too.
You’ve now got me interested in the Cokin Pro series. By the way – do they do Hard grads? I find the soft grads completely useless on MF kit and below. They’re useful on LF kit, but not anything smaller.
Comment by Bruce Percy — 29 April, 2010 @ 7:59 am
Hi Bruce
Well Cokin say their filters are Hard Gards but I have been told that in fact Lee’s soft are very soft, Lee’s hard are hard and Cokins are about in the middle. Not sure that answers your question :-)
Phil
Comment by PhilC — 29 April, 2010 @ 8:03 am
Hi Phil,
Yes it does thanks.
I find the Lee soft filters far too soft for Medium Format or 35mm. The hard grads are great but lose their edge when stepping up the focal lengths (they become more diffused).
I kind of wish they had some ‘telephoto hard grads’ – extremely hard – because their hard grads become almost useless in the telephoto ranges.
I wonder if I can get the Cokin Pro hard grads to fit a Lee holder? Their Hard grad sounds like a useful substitute for the Lee soft grads.
Comment by Bruce Percy — 29 April, 2010 @ 8:07 am
Hi Bruce
The X-Pro grads wont fit a Lee holder as they are just too big. You would need a X-Pro holder and adapter ring as well; so almost a whole new filter system :-(
I would try them before you buy to check they work as they say “on the tin”.
Phil
Comment by PhilC — 29 April, 2010 @ 9:40 am
The people you talk to may have told you the truth,there are two series of Cokin pro filters,the Z-pro and the X-pro series.The Z-pro series have the same size as Lee,100mm x 100mm,the X-pro are larger
Comment by pdamlien — 29 April, 2010 @ 11:19 pm
Question is (and I am not sure about the answer) do Cokin use the same resin and dyes for the X-Pro and the Z-Pros ? If no one knows I will try and find out.
Phil
Comment by PhilC — 30 April, 2010 @ 7:51 am
I believe Lee will make you extra-hard grads on request – I know of a couple of LF users with sets for use on telephotos just as you suggest. As they are all hand-made anyway I guess it might not increase the cost too much either…
Comment by adam — 4 May, 2010 @ 2:52 pm
Oh? Wow…. great. Thanks Adam for letting me know. I guess that makes sense if Lee hand make them, they should be able to make some harder edged ones….. terrific input there. Thanks.
Comment by Bruce Percy — 4 May, 2010 @ 4:57 pm
No problem. Here’s another great resource you might find useful. ;-)
Comment by adam — 5 May, 2010 @ 9:59 am